Aliens of Unvanquished
- Details
- Written by kharnov
This week, I'll be going over the progress we currently have on the alien player models.
Much like in Tremulous, Unvanquished possesses a main sequence of alien forms from the diminutive, poisonous dretch to the enormous, powerful tyrant. In addition, there is a base construction form, the granger. However, this may very well be where similarities end, as we're taking things in a different direction, both with art style and gameplay mechanics. For one, we will be adding new forms as the gameplay design progresses, and we will also be changing the function of existing forms. You can also expect aliens to be renamed at some point.
In regards to the art style, we're going for a gradient of insectoid to reptilian, at least on the mainline aliens. As you can probably tell already, the dretch is the starting point of this gradient, and the tyrant is at the other end. Between, there will be a mix of these features. The non-mainline aliens, the granger and the vulture, will both have their own style appropriate for their size in relation to the other aliens.
Now, here is the current state of our alien team, along with who's working on what and where we expect to take things. We'll start with the main sequence, and the other forms will be at the end.
Dretch
Designed by:
Gregstein (concept), Dandoombuggy (model), gavlig (animation)
Where is it currently?
We consider the dretch to be mostly complete. The model looks exactly how we want it to, and the animations are done. All we need to do now is create a new set of sounds for it, as well as some sort of first-person attack effect.
What's next?
The dretch will likely retain its gameplay role, which is to stealthily take out lone humans with a well-placed bite to the head. However, we're still thinking of ways to alter it. One idea that has been floating around internally is to give it some sort of pounce. We'll also need to figure out ways to make it more intuitive for new players.
Basilisk
Designed by:
Sewer Hrehorowicz (concept)
Where is it currently?
The basilisk remains a concept sketch, but we're going to get to modeling it very soon. As you can tell from the general shape, it's going to be somewhat mantis-like in appearance, which fits its role very well. Unlike the dretch before it, the head has a more reptilian shape, but retains the pairs of insectoid eyes.
What's next?
Once we approve a finished model based on the design, we'll show off progress shots of it while it's being textured. Then, of course, we'll animate it and stick it in-game for your grabbing pleasure. Gameplay-wise, the basilisk will almost definitely remain a stealthy trapping form, although we'll likely alter the way the poison gas and healing effects work.
Marauder
Designed by:
Sewer Hrehorowicz (concept), Osiris (model)
Where is it currently?
The model is finished, and this is our first public release of what it looks like. It isn't textured yet, but we're in the process of coming up with a color scheme for it. Being mid-way on the gradient between the dretch and tyrant, the marauder has a more reptilian appearance to the eyes, jaws, and exposed muscles, while the limbs and carapace retain the insectoid look.
What's next?
After we figure out which colors we'd like it to use, it will be textured and animated. Gameplay-wise, the marauder will still be the jumping assault form you've all grown to love, but we're still coming up with ways to diversify it. One possibility we've discussed is swapping out the lightning with some sort of rolling/diving attack.
Dragoon
Designed by:
Khaos (concept), Matt Berg (model)
Where is it currently?
We're close to finishing the base model, which shouldn't take much longer. Again, this is the first public release of what it looks like, but keep in mind that it's still in-progress. The dragoon has more reptilian features than the marauder, which you can tell from the shape of the head and the exposed body mass. A few insectoid features remain in the carapace and the ends of the limbs.
What's next?
After the model is done, you can expect it to be promptly textured and animated. Of course, the dragoon is definitely retaining its pounce attack, but we're still open to figuring out other things to do with it. We may, for instance, swap the dragoon barb out with something else. It depends on where our gameplay design discussions take us.
Tyrant
Designed by:
Gregstein (concept), Dandoombuggy (model), gavlig (animation)
Where is it currently?
Basically finished. The model looks great, the animations are great, and we have first-person limbs for it. All we need to do is provide it with some new sounds.
What's next?
If anything, we'll likely just be modifying its gameplay role somewhat. Clearly it will remain a large attack form that can take a load of damage, but we'll need to figure out ways to make it more interesting than that.
Granger
Designed by:
Khaos (concept)
Where is it currently?
Early concept stages. We're still playing with shapes and color schemes, but it will likely end up looking very much like the image you see here. As you can tell, it pays quite a bit of homage to the original Tremulous granger, while still building off the old design. It's much more armored, but will still have those six beady, black eyes and will produce delightful gurgling sounds.
What's next?
After the design is solidified, we'll put it through the modeling pipeline. It won't take much longer. The granger will still be an adorable building form, but like the other aliens, we may end up changing the way it functions.
Vulture
Designed by:
Khaos (concept)
Where is it currently?
Extremely early planning stages. The general body shape will look like what you see above, but expect it to change abruptly. It will have a fairly even blend of insectoid and reptilian features. Obviously, it is going to fly.
What's next?
Once we finish a design and model it, we'll have to fit it into our gameplay. The one thing we know for sure is that you won't be able to hover as one. Instead, expect to swoop around and deal with gravity. We might give it a wall-walk or at least a wall-cling ability to make it easier to deal with flight in corridors and making sneak attacks.
Refresh Posts
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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DwarfVader
Sunday, 10 February 2013 20:53
IMHO:
Looks very well. I realy do like your attempt to streamline the alien race and give it some sort of evolutionary "history"... is something similar planed for the human weapons as well ?
Points to consider:
1st person gun sights
weapon hands
battlesuit 1st person view
new weaponmodels witch could(should?) indicate ( maybee through a comon color sheme or logo?) that the human army is equiped by one or two major weapon manufacturers etc?
>the hole human arsenal looks more unfinshed and "clued" together from different artists and releases than any other aspect of the game.
Looks very well. I realy do like your attempt to streamline the alien race and give it some sort of evolutionary "history"... is something similar planed for the human weapons as well ?
Points to consider:
1st person gun sights
weapon hands
battlesuit 1st person view
new weaponmodels witch could(should?) indicate ( maybee through a comon color sheme or logo?) that the human army is equiped by one or two major weapon manufacturers etc?
>the hole human arsenal looks more unfinshed and "clued" together from different artists and releases than any other aspect of the game.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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kharnov
Sunday, 10 February 2013 20:55
Yes to all of those except the gun sights. The human equipment is what we're also working on at the moment. You can expect updates on those soon, since we have a lot of unfinished work.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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RustyNaps
Monday, 11 February 2013 01:27
Like the marauder looks great but one thing your animation for the tyrant is lack luster. It's legs should have a little bit more stride to fit the speed it walks at. Same goes for the dragoon and other fast aliens. Right now the tyrant looks like it's waddling but somehow achieving mk10 speeds. other than that i like everything so far but your animations really need to be improved on. With all this wonderful development going on so far and the dedication put into this game I know you all can do better than that with the animations.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
Monday, 11 February 2013 06:32
IMO
That Basi is damn sexy. Matches with with the group, fits the gameplay style very well. Im really loving the skinny-ness of the body.
The Marauder Ummm it's interesting... Im not sure the face matches the style of the rest of the group, like the Dretch and the Tyrant type thing. Although the Dretch face and the Rant face are different they still convey the same look to them.
The Dragoon looks a lot like the original, just more awkward I think... Is it supposed to stand that tall? I feel like a Dragoon would be something like a predatory big-cat.... With the pounce and all... More of a hit and run type thing as the gameplay suggests...
Granger Heh Im glad you're staying with the original look and I really really love the more armored look.
Vulture: I didn't even know you guys were planning a flying alien, I love it! Very sweet concept art, just again with the face matching bit though. I take it the stinger is going to be the weapon?
Art Style: I like it, although the dragoon is the only one with a tail which is odd.... You'd think a wall jumping creature like the Mara would have a long tail for balance
Side note on gun sites, as I asked the question in my other tread but Im not sure how many people actually looked at it... why no plans? You have the beautiful iron and reflex sights built onto the models already
That Basi is damn sexy. Matches with with the group, fits the gameplay style very well. Im really loving the skinny-ness of the body.
The Marauder Ummm it's interesting... Im not sure the face matches the style of the rest of the group, like the Dretch and the Tyrant type thing. Although the Dretch face and the Rant face are different they still convey the same look to them.
The Dragoon looks a lot like the original, just more awkward I think... Is it supposed to stand that tall? I feel like a Dragoon would be something like a predatory big-cat.... With the pounce and all... More of a hit and run type thing as the gameplay suggests...
Granger Heh Im glad you're staying with the original look and I really really love the more armored look.
Vulture: I didn't even know you guys were planning a flying alien, I love it! Very sweet concept art, just again with the face matching bit though. I take it the stinger is going to be the weapon?
Art Style: I like it, although the dragoon is the only one with a tail which is odd.... You'd think a wall jumping creature like the Mara would have a long tail for balance
Side note on gun sites, as I asked the question in my other tread but Im not sure how many people actually looked at it... why no plans? You have the beautiful iron and reflex sights built onto the models already
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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ViruS
Monday, 11 February 2013 08:47
Vulture: It's a PP-POKEMON! DAFAQ?!?
Granger: I don't really like the armour. I probably like Trem2's concept better, although theirs is sticking with the trem style...
Basi: I thought the whole design was going to be redone... still looks pretty much the same as before, only with better armour looks...
Rant: I think some animations still need smoothing. It still operates like a robot. It looks a whole lot better in his u2b vids though, so maybe its the person who imported it into the game's fault... Anyway, so far it's the only "original" model that i can think of that we have now...
Marauder: Uhh.... too hideous for me to comment on.
Dretch: Tremulous dretch actually had a hidden swipe animation, which never really worked for some reason. Maybe someone on the coding side can fix this, only then an attack animation would actually be useful. Also, the dretch model seems pretty un-original because it's just a spider with pincer mouth and six legs right now.
Overall: What these aliens now lack are common features. For example:
1. the dretch has no "hunch" that the granger has. In fact, somewhere on the tremulous' models there is a hunch. Even on the tyrant, only that's on the back of its head. Right now, it's like comparing horses to dogs whereas tremulous is like humans to primates.
2. Models are almost completely unrelated in lots of ways. From hunched granger, to spider dretch, to um.... 4 legged rant? to a massive mite to a ??? to a massive dude with lots of limbs (tyrant).
@DwarfVader about 1st person sights:
I can do that. It just won't be officially supported though and only works on impure servers.
Granger: I don't really like the armour. I probably like Trem2's concept better, although theirs is sticking with the trem style...
Basi: I thought the whole design was going to be redone... still looks pretty much the same as before, only with better armour looks...
Rant: I think some animations still need smoothing. It still operates like a robot. It looks a whole lot better in his u2b vids though, so maybe its the person who imported it into the game's fault... Anyway, so far it's the only "original" model that i can think of that we have now...
Marauder: Uhh.... too hideous for me to comment on.
Dretch: Tremulous dretch actually had a hidden swipe animation, which never really worked for some reason. Maybe someone on the coding side can fix this, only then an attack animation would actually be useful. Also, the dretch model seems pretty un-original because it's just a spider with pincer mouth and six legs right now.
Overall: What these aliens now lack are common features. For example:
1. the dretch has no "hunch" that the granger has. In fact, somewhere on the tremulous' models there is a hunch. Even on the tyrant, only that's on the back of its head. Right now, it's like comparing horses to dogs whereas tremulous is like humans to primates.
2. Models are almost completely unrelated in lots of ways. From hunched granger, to spider dretch, to um.... 4 legged rant? to a massive mite to a ??? to a massive dude with lots of limbs (tyrant).
@DwarfVader about 1st person sights:
I can do that. It just won't be officially supported though and only works on impure servers.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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banksy
Monday, 11 February 2013 09:56
WOW. As always. Great progress. I am really liking what I see here 
Now with the reptilian features of the aliens it makes me want to create a more tropical environment on my map
keep up the great work
Now with the reptilian features of the aliens it makes me want to create a more tropical environment on my map
keep up the great work
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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danmal
We haven't implemented iron sights as our gameplay doesn't work well with them.
I don't believe he's been posed yet. He'll have a more natural stance in game.
Monday, 11 February 2013 10:43
WhiteTech wrote:
Side note on gun sites, as I asked the question in my other tread but Im not sure how many people actually looked at it... why no plans? You have the beautiful iron and reflex sights built onto the models already
We haven't implemented iron sights as our gameplay doesn't work well with them.
WhiteTech wrote:
The Dragoon looks a lot like the original, just more awkward I think... Is it supposed to stand that tall? I feel like a Dragoon would be something like a predatory big-cat.... With the pounce and all... More of a hit and run type thing as the gameplay suggests...
I don't believe he's been posed yet. He'll have a more natural stance in game.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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kharnov
Monday, 11 February 2013 16:12
Yeah, the dragoon hasn't been posed. That's just the raw model. The in-game model will be closer to the ground.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
Heh I was trying to be polite about the Mara.... but since it's out there, yeah it's bad. Doesn't fit the art style, awkward overall.
and I think the new Basi looks much much much different from the one we have now... The old one was supposed to be a mini Rant of sorts, and was pretty bad (no offence to the creater) this one is just plain amazing. In fact my favorite of the whole group. I the only parts I can see that are "similar" is the upright part and the bulge part, even so, the upright is different. Im not sure I could see it done any other way considering the role, unless you go back to the original Trem one, but then how does it grab on to its prey? Which is where the new amazing model comes in.
As for the 4 legged rant, that makes sense. As the rest are 6 legs, the rant just evolved into using 2 of the legs as arms therefore leaving 4 as legs.
The new Dretch is more like an insect whereas the new Granger is more reptilian. And does the Dretch need more then 6 legs and a mouth? Still very different from the original so it has it's own originality, I like it. I haven't seen Trem 2's concept granger to compare, but even as so the one we have here almost looks exactly like the original, just armored. I love it. There for it's still much like the Trem style. IMO it did exactly what they said, new, reptilian, and still paying homage to the original granger.
I see what you mean, but why go through the trouble of adding sights to the models?
As for the goon, I thought so, it still looks almost a mirror of the original which is good, considering I like the original quite a bit, but almost too similar. I'd change the head just a tad, give it more of the new Rant look with the mean teeth.
And a note on Alien attack "Indicators". We need to come up with a different way of showing an attack. Natural selection 2 has the jaws that close on the screen. It's horrible. Like why would the aliens eyes be in it's mouth? That's the first thought that comes to my head
For swiping aliens (Im thinking Rant is a good example), perhaps not the awkward arms that stick straight out on the screen. We don't need to see the whole arm. Something like how you only see part of the hands/arms on humans off to the side and are dynamic. The actual attack animation doesn't need to come right through the screen either.
Monday, 11 February 2013 23:30
ViruS wrote:
Vulture: It's a PP-POKEMON! DAFAQ?!?
Granger: I don't really like the armour. I probably like Trem2's concept better, although theirs is sticking with the trem style...
Basi: I thought the whole design was going to be redone... still looks pretty much the same as before, only with better armour looks...
Rant: I think some animations still need smoothing. It still operates like a robot. It looks a whole lot better in his u2b vids though, so maybe its the person who imported it into the game's fault... Anyway, so far it's the only "original" model that i can think of that we have now...
Marauder: Uhh.... too hideous for me to comment on.
Dretch: Tremulous dretch actually had a hidden swipe animation, which never really worked for some reason. Maybe someone on the coding side can fix this, only then an attack animation would actually be useful. Also, the dretch model seems pretty un-original because it's just a spider with pincer mouth and six legs right now.
Overall: What these aliens now lack are common features. For example:
1. the dretch has no "hunch" that the granger has. In fact, somewhere on the tremulous' models there is a hunch. Even on the tyrant, only that's on the back of its head. Right now, it's like comparing horses to dogs whereas tremulous is like humans to primates.
2. Models are almost completely unrelated in lots of ways. From hunched granger, to spider dretch, to um.... 4 legged rant? to a massive mite to a ??? to a massive dude with lots of limbs (tyrant).
@DwarfVader about 1st person sights:
I can do that. It just won't be officially supported though and only works on impure servers.
Granger: I don't really like the armour. I probably like Trem2's concept better, although theirs is sticking with the trem style...
Basi: I thought the whole design was going to be redone... still looks pretty much the same as before, only with better armour looks...
Rant: I think some animations still need smoothing. It still operates like a robot. It looks a whole lot better in his u2b vids though, so maybe its the person who imported it into the game's fault... Anyway, so far it's the only "original" model that i can think of that we have now...
Marauder: Uhh.... too hideous for me to comment on.
Dretch: Tremulous dretch actually had a hidden swipe animation, which never really worked for some reason. Maybe someone on the coding side can fix this, only then an attack animation would actually be useful. Also, the dretch model seems pretty un-original because it's just a spider with pincer mouth and six legs right now.
Overall: What these aliens now lack are common features. For example:
1. the dretch has no "hunch" that the granger has. In fact, somewhere on the tremulous' models there is a hunch. Even on the tyrant, only that's on the back of its head. Right now, it's like comparing horses to dogs whereas tremulous is like humans to primates.
2. Models are almost completely unrelated in lots of ways. From hunched granger, to spider dretch, to um.... 4 legged rant? to a massive mite to a ??? to a massive dude with lots of limbs (tyrant).
@DwarfVader about 1st person sights:
I can do that. It just won't be officially supported though and only works on impure servers.
Heh I was trying to be polite about the Mara.... but since it's out there, yeah it's bad. Doesn't fit the art style, awkward overall.
and I think the new Basi looks much much much different from the one we have now... The old one was supposed to be a mini Rant of sorts, and was pretty bad (no offence to the creater) this one is just plain amazing. In fact my favorite of the whole group. I the only parts I can see that are "similar" is the upright part and the bulge part, even so, the upright is different. Im not sure I could see it done any other way considering the role, unless you go back to the original Trem one, but then how does it grab on to its prey? Which is where the new amazing model comes in.
As for the 4 legged rant, that makes sense. As the rest are 6 legs, the rant just evolved into using 2 of the legs as arms therefore leaving 4 as legs.
The new Dretch is more like an insect whereas the new Granger is more reptilian. And does the Dretch need more then 6 legs and a mouth? Still very different from the original so it has it's own originality, I like it. I haven't seen Trem 2's concept granger to compare, but even as so the one we have here almost looks exactly like the original, just armored. I love it. There for it's still much like the Trem style. IMO it did exactly what they said, new, reptilian, and still paying homage to the original granger.
danmal wrote:
We haven't implemented iron sights as our gameplay doesn't work well with them.
I don't believe he's been posed yet. He'll have a more natural stance in game.
I don't believe he's been posed yet. He'll have a more natural stance in game.
I see what you mean, but why go through the trouble of adding sights to the models?
As for the goon, I thought so, it still looks almost a mirror of the original which is good, considering I like the original quite a bit, but almost too similar. I'd change the head just a tad, give it more of the new Rant look with the mean teeth.
And a note on Alien attack "Indicators". We need to come up with a different way of showing an attack. Natural selection 2 has the jaws that close on the screen. It's horrible. Like why would the aliens eyes be in it's mouth? That's the first thought that comes to my head
For swiping aliens (Im thinking Rant is a good example), perhaps not the awkward arms that stick straight out on the screen. We don't need to see the whole arm. Something like how you only see part of the hands/arms on humans off to the side and are dynamic. The actual attack animation doesn't need to come right through the screen either.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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kharnov
Monday, 11 February 2013 23:49
Actually, if you compare the marauder to the basilisk, you'll see that the head shape, claw position, and limbs are very similar. Also, both aliens have those little hooks on the ends of their rear limbs. The marauder is just bulkier, has more armor, and its posture is different. Both the basilisk and marauder concepts were done by the same artist.
You can look at the sequence this way:
Dretch -> Basilisk: limbs become longer, forelimbs are now used for cutting instead of movement, head separates from the body.
Basilisk -> Marauder: more body mass, armored plates on body, posture is changed so that the head is in front of the body instead of stuck upwards.
Marauder -> Dragoon: even more body mass, armored plates are more pronounced.
Dragoon -> Tyrant: huge increase in body size, armored plates now cover the whole body, limbs retain same general shape but are modified.
To be honest though, you can't really expect all the aliens to look like they are closely related to each other. That would be hard to do without putting a huge emphasis on realism, and we're more interested in things looking cool than strictly realistic. For a comparison, look at the old aliens. Seriously, look at Tremulous. Back then, you had what, this sequence?
Brown spider -> white reptilian thing missing a lower jaw -> red reptilian thing with both jaws -> dark blue bulky thing that now bites instead of slashes -> huge blue bulky thing that has an entirely different body shape and goes back to slashing
At the very least, we're going to be coloring our aliens on the gradient I described in the article, and they all have features going along that gradient too. They're not going to look like they all descended from the same organism, but as I've already covered, we're not going for that. We're prioritizing cool over realism. In the end, isn't that really all that matters?
You can look at the sequence this way:
Dretch -> Basilisk: limbs become longer, forelimbs are now used for cutting instead of movement, head separates from the body.
Basilisk -> Marauder: more body mass, armored plates on body, posture is changed so that the head is in front of the body instead of stuck upwards.
Marauder -> Dragoon: even more body mass, armored plates are more pronounced.
Dragoon -> Tyrant: huge increase in body size, armored plates now cover the whole body, limbs retain same general shape but are modified.
To be honest though, you can't really expect all the aliens to look like they are closely related to each other. That would be hard to do without putting a huge emphasis on realism, and we're more interested in things looking cool than strictly realistic. For a comparison, look at the old aliens. Seriously, look at Tremulous. Back then, you had what, this sequence?
Brown spider -> white reptilian thing missing a lower jaw -> red reptilian thing with both jaws -> dark blue bulky thing that now bites instead of slashes -> huge blue bulky thing that has an entirely different body shape and goes back to slashing
At the very least, we're going to be coloring our aliens on the gradient I described in the article, and they all have features going along that gradient too. They're not going to look like they all descended from the same organism, but as I've already covered, we're not going for that. We're prioritizing cool over realism. In the end, isn't that really all that matters?
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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Unregistered (guest)
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 00:17
How about the Marauder spew a stream of green corrosive acid (i.e. acid tube) at a shorter distance than Dragoon barb (and opposed to electric shock) that splatters on a surface, and Dragoon shoot an acid ball which impacts and explodes. Similar effects to poison on humans.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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Khaoz
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 02:02
Vulture: Old concept, there is a newer
Granger: Uhh, it's got antenna now, guess the most recent hasn't been uploaded, also there's a big bug shell on it's back, not sure how it looks at all reptilian, it's pretty much a big beetle.
Basi: Looks wicked, nothing like the mini rant we currently have
Rant: Easily best model so far
Marauder: Looks awesomely scary, here's a skin I did whilst I was bored -> [URL="http://i.imgur.com/p978HzG.png"]here[/URL]
Dretch: Gud
Goon: Model makes it look bad, (just the positioning of the legs) it's supposed to somewhat look like [URL="http://i.imgur.com/YAoDD4P.png"]this[/URL].
Granger: Uhh, it's got antenna now, guess the most recent hasn't been uploaded, also there's a big bug shell on it's back, not sure how it looks at all reptilian, it's pretty much a big beetle.
Basi: Looks wicked, nothing like the mini rant we currently have
Rant: Easily best model so far
Marauder: Looks awesomely scary, here's a skin I did whilst I was bored -> [URL="http://i.imgur.com/p978HzG.png"]here[/URL]
Dretch: Gud
Goon: Model makes it look bad, (just the positioning of the legs) it's supposed to somewhat look like [URL="http://i.imgur.com/YAoDD4P.png"]this[/URL].
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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danmal
I'm not sure. I guess he thought they looked cool. I'd personally be in favour of removing the sights as it's a bit confusing that you have sights but you can't actually use them.
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 02:47
WhiteTech wrote:
I see what you mean, but why go through the trouble of adding sights to the models?
I'm not sure. I guess he thought they looked cool. I'd personally be in favour of removing the sights as it's a bit confusing that you have sights but you can't actually use them.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
You could argue that a Human as the same shape as a dog..... just need to put a nose on our chin and look up a bit and now you have a snout. It's the "same shape"
The Mara's face is almost perfectly flat. Look where the jaw is on the Mara, the length. Whereas the basi (and everything else) has a "snout". Rant and the new basi have a similar face, and it's great. That Mara really needs a re-work again.
I'd be interested in seeing the new concept!
And that drawing makes the Goon amazing. Looks like your old Sig pic, Love it!
EDIT: If we were to do a common theme with the jagged sticking out teeth of the Rant, I think it would with with the art style, covering the seams between artists. For instance the new Basi does that rather well. I can tell you how much I love that Basi.
EDIT2: Perhaps claw feet on the Granger? Just to give it a bit more reason to the ability to wall walk.
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 03:11
kharnov wrote:
Actually, if you compare the marauder to the basilisk, you'll see that the head shape, claw position, and limbs are very similar. Also, both aliens have those little hooks on the ends of their rear limbs. The marauder is just bulkier, has more armor, and its posture is different. Both the basilisk and marauder concepts were done by the same artist.
You could argue that a Human as the same shape as a dog..... just need to put a nose on our chin and look up a bit and now you have a snout. It's the "same shape"
The Mara's face is almost perfectly flat. Look where the jaw is on the Mara, the length. Whereas the basi (and everything else) has a "snout". Rant and the new basi have a similar face, and it's great. That Mara really needs a re-work again.
Khaoz wrote:
Vulture: Old concept, there is a newer
Goon: Model makes it look bad, (just the positioning of the legs) it's supposed to somewhat look like [URL="http://i.imgur.com/YAoDD4P.png"]this[/URL].
Goon: Model makes it look bad, (just the positioning of the legs) it's supposed to somewhat look like [URL="http://i.imgur.com/YAoDD4P.png"]this[/URL].
I'd be interested in seeing the new concept!
And that drawing makes the Goon amazing. Looks like your old Sig pic, Love it!
EDIT: If we were to do a common theme with the jagged sticking out teeth of the Rant, I think it would with with the art style, covering the seams between artists. For instance the new Basi does that rather well. I can tell you how much I love that Basi.
EDIT2: Perhaps claw feet on the Granger? Just to give it a bit more reason to the ability to wall walk.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
RustyNaps
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 03:20
IDK WHY PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE MARAUDER!!!
Seriously at least it's body MAKES SENSE, Marauder has hops and wall jumps, those bunched up legs perfectly fit his physicality. The only thing that's really wrong about the Marauder is the face and the textures. Other than that his body is fine. Keep the Marauder please. It's the only model I find good, that and rant.
Seriously at least it's body MAKES SENSE, Marauder has hops and wall jumps, those bunched up legs perfectly fit his physicality. The only thing that's really wrong about the Marauder is the face and the textures. Other than that his body is fine. Keep the Marauder please. It's the only model I find good, that and rant.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
kharnov
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 03:44
We weren't expecting the aliens to be universally lauded, at least at first. There are bound to be those that prefer the old Tremulous models more, which is understandable, as those people have spent years with them. Really, the most I can say is to give the new models some time and to wait as they're textured, they're going to be a lot more appealing when they're not uncolored models or artwork.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
WhiteTech
We're mostly complaining about the face
I'd agree, but it's only a single model we're really complaining about, and Khaoz did a concept texture and it still looked bad :l
The rest are amazing.
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 04:52
RustyNaps wrote:
IDK WHY PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE MARAUDER!!!
Seriously at least it's body MAKES SENSE, Marauder has hops and wall jumps, those bunched up legs perfectly fit his physicality. The only thing that's really wrong about the Marauder is the face and the textures. Other than that his body is fine. Keep the Marauder please. It's the only model I find good, that and rant.
Seriously at least it's body MAKES SENSE, Marauder has hops and wall jumps, those bunched up legs perfectly fit his physicality. The only thing that's really wrong about the Marauder is the face and the textures. Other than that his body is fine. Keep the Marauder please. It's the only model I find good, that and rant.
We're mostly complaining about the face
kharnov wrote:
We weren't expecting the aliens to be universally lauded, at least at first. There are bound to be those that prefer the old Tremulous models more, which is understandable, as those people have spent years with them. Really, the most I can say is to give the new models some time and to wait as they're textured, they're going to be a lot more appealing when they're not uncolored models or artwork.
I'd agree, but it's only a single model we're really complaining about, and Khaoz did a concept texture and it still looked bad :l
The rest are amazing.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
kharnov
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 05:17
Some people say one thing looks fantastic, other people say the same thing looks terrible. Can't please everyone. :p
However, what we can assure you of is that all of the aliens will be of the highest possible quality. Even if you disapprove of some feature of their body plan, they will still look great on their own.
However, what we can assure you of is that all of the aliens will be of the highest possible quality. Even if you disapprove of some feature of their body plan, they will still look great on their own.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
WhiteTech
I completely agree with the matter of opinion. But so far more people have expressed against it, then people have liked it.
but now looking at facts..... The dragoon, which is next in line, has a very long snout, and the Basi before the Mara has one also.... And the Rant, and the Granger........ and non of them have a jaw like that.......... or eyes like that..........
Leading to my personal opinion, that it doesn't fit..... and i don't like it. Although I do enjoy the body and the claw feet. Im guessing the feet give it the ability to wall jump like it does, making a nice segway from wall crawling, to the pounce of the Goon, and finally to the nothing of a Rant....
That does seem more "realistic", But IMO the electricity is waaaayyyyy cooler and it arcs from human to human
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 08:00
kharnov wrote:
Some people say one thing looks fantastic, other people say the same thing looks terrible. Can't please everyone. :p
However, what we can assure you of is that all of the aliens will be of the highest possible quality. Even if you disapprove of some feature of their body plan, they will still look great on their own.
However, what we can assure you of is that all of the aliens will be of the highest possible quality. Even if you disapprove of some feature of their body plan, they will still look great on their own.
I completely agree with the matter of opinion. But so far more people have expressed against it, then people have liked it.
but now looking at facts..... The dragoon, which is next in line, has a very long snout, and the Basi before the Mara has one also.... And the Rant, and the Granger........ and non of them have a jaw like that.......... or eyes like that..........
Leading to my personal opinion, that it doesn't fit..... and i don't like it. Although I do enjoy the body and the claw feet. Im guessing the feet give it the ability to wall jump like it does, making a nice segway from wall crawling, to the pounce of the Goon, and finally to the nothing of a Rant....
Unregistered wrote:
How about the Marauder spew a stream of green corrosive acid (i.e. acid tube) at a shorter distance than Dragoon barb (and opposed to electric shock) that splatters on a surface, and Dragoon shoot an acid ball which impacts and explodes. Similar effects to poison on humans.
That does seem more "realistic", But IMO the electricity is waaaayyyyy cooler and it arcs from human to human
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
ViruS
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 11:31
dretch: Insect? Looks very much like a spider - Its eye positions, the abdomen, the leg spurts out from the whateveryoucallit...
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.
->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support
Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)
How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs
@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.
Quote:
Seriously, look at Tremulous. Back then, you had what, this sequence?
Brown spider -> white reptilian thing missing a lower jaw -> red reptilian thing with both jaws -> dark blue bulky thing that now bites instead of slashes -> huge blue bulky thing that has an entirely different body shape and goes back to slashing
Brown spider -> white reptilian thing missing a lower jaw -> red reptilian thing with both jaws -> dark blue bulky thing that now bites instead of slashes -> huge blue bulky thing that has an entirely different body shape and goes back to slashing
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support
Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)
How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs
@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
Khaoz
I understood exactly none of this post.
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 12:42
ViruS wrote:
dretch: Insect? Looks very much like a spider - Its eye positions, the abdomen, the leg spurts out from the whateveryoucallit...
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.
->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support
Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)
How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs
@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.
->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support
Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)
How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs
@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.
I understood exactly none of this post.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
Unregistered (guest)
I completely agree with the matter of opinion. But so far more people have expressed against it, then people have liked it.
but now looking at facts..... The dragoon, which is next in line, has a very long snout, and the Basi before the Mara has one also.... And the Rant, and the Granger........ and non of them have a jaw like that.......... or eyes like that..........
Leading to my personal opinion, that it doesn't fit..... and i don't like it. Although I do enjoy the body and the claw feet. Im guessing the feet give it the ability to wall jump like it does, making a nice segway from wall crawling, to the pounce of the Goon, and finally to the nothing of a Rant....
That does seem more "realistic", But IMO the electricity is waaaayyyyy cooler and it arcs from human to human
hehe That electricity is hard to put down.
How about an alien which can build a barrier around itself as a defensive position? Or maybe Human Builder could erect walls/barriers (destructive) as well or similar to the Granger. Might add an interesting additional element to gameplay for base defence, map creativity, and forward bases. Am just quietly brainstorming here, don't mind me... lol
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 13:12
"WhiteTech" wrote:
kharnov wrote:
Some people say one thing looks fantastic, other people say the same thing looks terrible. Can't please everyone. :p
However, what we can assure you of is that all of the aliens will be of the highest possible quality. Even if you disapprove of some feature of their body plan, they will still look great on their own.
However, what we can assure you of is that all of the aliens will be of the highest possible quality. Even if you disapprove of some feature of their body plan, they will still look great on their own.
I completely agree with the matter of opinion. But so far more people have expressed against it, then people have liked it.
but now looking at facts..... The dragoon, which is next in line, has a very long snout, and the Basi before the Mara has one also.... And the Rant, and the Granger........ and non of them have a jaw like that.......... or eyes like that..........
Leading to my personal opinion, that it doesn't fit..... and i don't like it. Although I do enjoy the body and the claw feet. Im guessing the feet give it the ability to wall jump like it does, making a nice segway from wall crawling, to the pounce of the Goon, and finally to the nothing of a Rant....
Unregistered wrote:
How about the Marauder spew a stream of green corrosive acid (i.e. acid tube) at a shorter distance than Dragoon barb (and opposed to electric shock) that splatters on a surface, and Dragoon shoot an acid ball which impacts and explodes. Similar effects to poison on humans.
That does seem more "realistic", But IMO the electricity is waaaayyyyy cooler and it arcs from human to human
How about an alien which can build a barrier around itself as a defensive position? Or maybe Human Builder could erect walls/barriers (destructive) as well or similar to the Granger. Might add an interesting additional element to gameplay for base defence, map creativity, and forward bases. Am just quietly brainstorming here, don't mind me... lol
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
seana11
It made perfect sense: he is poking fun at progression that kharnov likes.
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 21:05
Khaoz wrote:
I understood exactly none of this post.
It made perfect sense: he is poking fun at progression that kharnov likes.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
WhiteTech
Im really not understanding your views.... They all have 6 limbs. They've always had 6 limbs.
The original basi was a off reptile with no bottom jaw, old Unva Basi was supposed to be a mini rant, and if fact does, look at them side by side. Now the new one is amazing in all possible ways.
Wtf about posture?
And armor plates to give it more reason to be able to take multiple clips of ammo before it dies.
As for Insect, general slag term for small creepy crawlies. IE: Flys, ants, arachnides ect.... no need to be anal.
Wednesday, 13 February 2013 02:55
ViruS wrote:
dretch: Insect? Looks very much like a spider - Its eye positions, the abdomen, the leg spurts out from the whateveryoucallit...
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.
->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support
Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)
How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs
@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.
Basi: Reptilian? Nah. "Supposed to be a mini rant?" Never heard that story.
->Green weird meaty fleshy "unknown" "somewhat spider-like" (big front legs, big abdomen)
->Light brown/yellow 6-legged "semispider" that shed its ability to build along with its tusks, (most of its features aren't even like a spider, i.e. the 4 arms under, not in front of its head, and its hunched back, no visable mouth)
-> pink "lengthier reptilian" with longer legs and the teeth growing on the botoom of its head, armour growing on the back around its hunch, the wreird chest pattern starts here and is kept
-> more redder and bigger one with armour on its claws, grows side frills that emit electricity, and its lower jaw is complete, grows slightly fatter
-> Bigger, stronger with a "forehead" plate and tusks regrow from the frills, front legs become strong for pouncing, lose leg armour for lighter build, loses hunch armour
-> Front portion stands up, *magically* from the tusks (yeah, okay, there's a fault here), hunch is what causes them to raise up, headplate becomes head balance support
Unv:
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed! (head seperated upwards instead of forwards)"
Moar armour!
"Whoops, posture changed again! (neck shortens into a turtle-like, not refering to the long neck turtle btw)"
Moar armour!
Moar armour! (*argh soo heavy... that i can pounce at blazingly fast speeds, yet cannot crush bones of a human and kill in one go)
Moar limbs! (more than trem even has!)
How I saw it when i first saw unv:
Spider -> ???
??? -> ???
??? -> Moar armour!
Moar armour! -> Moar limbs, lose that armour, brain exposed, who gives a fak if its a weak point, grow more limbs
@mara in more detail: I understand your points, but I'm not sure how does a thick "chunk" of armour emit electricity. Rather, the tremulous model's looks like it was vunerable to bullets as well though.
Im really not understanding your views.... They all have 6 limbs. They've always had 6 limbs.
The original basi was a off reptile with no bottom jaw, old Unva Basi was supposed to be a mini rant, and if fact does, look at them side by side. Now the new one is amazing in all possible ways.
Wtf about posture?
And armor plates to give it more reason to be able to take multiple clips of ammo before it dies.
As for Insect, general slag term for small creepy crawlies. IE: Flys, ants, arachnides ect.... no need to be anal.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
ViruS
Look at the tyrant
Basi: I was never told this.
*spider gains an L shaped back, sticking the head upwards*
*next class has the backbone streched forward
*the class after that class after that has its back stretched up again
Having the two evolution classes in between with a different posture is kinda pointless, or you could say the basi having its head up is pointless. We might as well get the head of the mara and the goon up.
Tyrant seems to be having a lot of weak spots then, particularly the back of its head where its brain should be a one-shot easy weakpoint, unless it's tougher than steel.
Adding simply armour and making the class bigger doesn't make it interesting for me. It's like adding chunks of metal to a tank to make it look cooler.
What I like about the some trem models-
basi - unique jaw
mara - unique 'zapping' storage in its bodies, showing off (despite looking like a weakpoint)
In a way that's like calling dogs horses, or the other away around.
The closest I can ever relate to that is probably dingoes, an australian dog-wolf hybrid.
Wednesday, 13 February 2013 08:32
Quote:
They all have 6 limbs. They've always had 6 limbs.
Basi: I was never told this.
Quote:
Wtf about posture?
*next class has the backbone streched forward
*the class after that class after that has its back stretched up again
Having the two evolution classes in between with a different posture is kinda pointless, or you could say the basi having its head up is pointless. We might as well get the head of the mara and the goon up.
Quote:
And armor plates to give it more reason to be able to take multiple clips of ammo before it dies.
Adding simply armour and making the class bigger doesn't make it interesting for me. It's like adding chunks of metal to a tank to make it look cooler.
What I like about the some trem models-
basi - unique jaw
mara - unique 'zapping' storage in its bodies, showing off (despite looking like a weakpoint)
Quote:
As for Insect, general slag term for small creepy crawlies. IE: Flys, ants, arachnides ect.... no need to be anal.
The closest I can ever relate to that is probably dingoes, an australian dog-wolf hybrid.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
kharnov
Wednesday, 13 February 2013 18:46
Why are we assuming all the aliens evolved from each other, though? The background material I wrote a while ago involves the aliens being different organisms initially, and they were all inducted into the swarm. This is partially why I don't like the term "evolution points" anymore. People think that all the aliens are supposed to "evolve" into each other. It has become entrenched, and everyone thinks that way now. It's somewhat irritating, especially considering that I'm the one writing the new background material and I have to work from practically nothing more than a collection of models.
Regardless, there's a whole minefield of misconceptions. I can only scratch the surface, but as an evolutionary biologist (though I must admit I work with plants, not animals) I can tell you that not only does evolution not work the way that people seem to think it does (I blame Pokemon for this), but the organisms we're dealing with don't necessarily have to follow the same evolutionary mechanisms that occur in life on Earth. They're aliens, why do you want them to use the same biology that we do? Do you know how hilariously improbable that would be?
In summary, let me make something clear. Our priorities are this: looking cool goes first, forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second. Without a doubt, I can write story material to explain anything. We would rather have models that we feel look cool instead of limiting ourselves to having everything look the same for whatever reason.
Regardless, there's a whole minefield of misconceptions. I can only scratch the surface, but as an evolutionary biologist (though I must admit I work with plants, not animals) I can tell you that not only does evolution not work the way that people seem to think it does (I blame Pokemon for this), but the organisms we're dealing with don't necessarily have to follow the same evolutionary mechanisms that occur in life on Earth. They're aliens, why do you want them to use the same biology that we do? Do you know how hilariously improbable that would be?
In summary, let me make something clear. Our priorities are this: looking cool goes first, forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second. Without a doubt, I can write story material to explain anything. We would rather have models that we feel look cool instead of limiting ourselves to having everything look the same for whatever reason.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
--
KenuR
Well, I did suggest a while ago that each alien class should be balanced out so that they're all equally useful in different situations. So, atm, rant is the strongest and overall the best choice in most situations. If you reduce the aliens' HP across the board and make them more or less equal in strength, make each class available for free at the start (you still have to unlock some classes, but it doesn't cost evo points to play as them) and give each class several advanced forms to evolve into by spending evos, then the game would be a lot more balanced and would actually make some sense.
Thursday, 14 February 2013 08:52
kharnov wrote:
Why are we assuming all the aliens evolved from each other, though? The background material I wrote a while ago involves the aliens being different organisms initially, and they were all inducted into the swarm. This is partially why I don't like the term "evolution points" anymore. People think that all the aliens are supposed to "evolve" into each other. It has become entrenched, and everyone thinks that way now. It's somewhat irritating, especially considering that I'm the one writing the new background material and I have to work from practically nothing more than a collection of models.
Regardless, there's a whole minefield of misconceptions. I can only scratch the surface, but as an evolutionary biologist (though I must admit I work with plants, not animals) I can tell you that not only does evolution not work the way that people seem to think it does (I blame Pokemon for this), but the organisms we're dealing with don't necessarily have to follow the same evolutionary mechanisms that occur in life on Earth. They're aliens, why do you want them to use the same biology that we do? Do you know how hilariously improbable that would be?
In summary, let me make something clear. Our priorities are this: looking cool goes first, forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second. Without a doubt, I can write story material to explain anything. We would rather have models that we feel look cool instead of limiting ourselves to having everything look the same for whatever reason.
Regardless, there's a whole minefield of misconceptions. I can only scratch the surface, but as an evolutionary biologist (though I must admit I work with plants, not animals) I can tell you that not only does evolution not work the way that people seem to think it does (I blame Pokemon for this), but the organisms we're dealing with don't necessarily have to follow the same evolutionary mechanisms that occur in life on Earth. They're aliens, why do you want them to use the same biology that we do? Do you know how hilariously improbable that would be?
In summary, let me make something clear. Our priorities are this: looking cool goes first, forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second. Without a doubt, I can write story material to explain anything. We would rather have models that we feel look cool instead of limiting ourselves to having everything look the same for whatever reason.
Well, I did suggest a while ago that each alien class should be balanced out so that they're all equally useful in different situations. So, atm, rant is the strongest and overall the best choice in most situations. If you reduce the aliens' HP across the board and make them more or less equal in strength, make each class available for free at the start (you still have to unlock some classes, but it doesn't cost evo points to play as them) and give each class several advanced forms to evolve into by spending evos, then the game would be a lot more balanced and would actually make some sense.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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ViruS
Thursday, 14 February 2013 11:05
Ahh whatever. We might as well give them the ability to ride hoverboards.
What should we use.... hmm... Newform points! Reform points!.... uhh... Mutation points! sounds gay... give up...
WARNING: Goes Off-Topic:
Gameplay-wise, Rant is the most unused class for me, not because it costs 5 evos or because it's only available at s3, but because it's the most useless class. I have my own reasons:
-It's harder to dodge turrets due to the wide bbox area
-Can't jump ontop of anything higher than a tube (cades don't count) despite being able to "jump the gap" in atcs/plat23
-So fat, just a big target
-Hard to use in teamwork except for being a meatshield for fleeing goons
-Easy to block teammates with
-Feels slow, unless in a small area that suits the class (i.e. atcs hallways, plat23 halls are too long and spacious)
-Heals so slow that I'd rather killmyself after I reach below 50 hp and if I have evos
And dragoon is actually quite unbalanced for several reasons:
-One of the tankiest class
-One of the fastest class
-One of the strongest class
In most games, they generally follow these trends:
-Smallest = Fastest, not really hard to hit
-Bigger = Does more damage, tanky yet slow
...
...
*rest deleted, extended over 1000 words accidentally, fak dat and fak meh, I think i've got /d/hc disease
Quote:
I don't like the term "evolution points" anymore.
Quote:
forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second
Quote:
I'm still having trouble finding any links apart from armour between aliens
KenuR wrote:
So, atm, rant is the strongest and overall the best choice in most situations.
Gameplay-wise, Rant is the most unused class for me, not because it costs 5 evos or because it's only available at s3, but because it's the most useless class. I have my own reasons:
-It's harder to dodge turrets due to the wide bbox area
-Can't jump ontop of anything higher than a tube (cades don't count) despite being able to "jump the gap" in atcs/plat23
-So fat, just a big target
-Hard to use in teamwork except for being a meatshield for fleeing goons
-Easy to block teammates with
-Feels slow, unless in a small area that suits the class (i.e. atcs hallways, plat23 halls are too long and spacious)
-Heals so slow that I'd rather killmyself after I reach below 50 hp and if I have evos
And dragoon is actually quite unbalanced for several reasons:
-One of the tankiest class
-One of the fastest class
-One of the strongest class
In most games, they generally follow these trends:
-Smallest = Fastest, not really hard to hit
-Bigger = Does more damage, tanky yet slow
...
...
*rest deleted, extended over 1000 words accidentally, fak dat and fak meh, I think i've got /d/hc disease
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
Virus:
The Tyrant has 2 arms and 4 legs. 2 + 4 = 6. So, to put it in evolutionary standards, 2 of the legs evolved into slashing arms.
Basi, Either was I until a few months ago, and it makes sense that it actually looks like a mini rant, but who cares because it's being changed entirely.
And what about adding armor? It's not just adding armor for the Adv class, the base class is getting it to, and eh Adv. class still needs to look something like it's base class. An Adv. Mara is still a Mara, just a bit bigger, tougher and glows with blue electricity since it can zap things.
Posture: Im very sure us humans can stand up straight leaving most monkeys still hunched over, walking on their knuckles.
kharnov: I agree looking cool is defiantly of the up most importance. But the difficulty with that is everything needs to be of the same art style, and a certain level of being believable. Just like movies. You can't tell me Avatar would be as good if it wasn't as believable? James Cameron himself said that.
But what you're suggesting about real life evolution doesn't apply in this particular instance. The only logical solution to any evolution is evolving something that is needed. Flowers attract bees. In this case Maras become bigger more powerful Goons and become bigger more powerful tyrants. One alien evolving into the next as needed.
As for aliens being different organisms entirely doesn't make sense in the least. They all come from the same egg and the same base alien. And is not a simple symbiotic relationship like most cross species relationships. Think of it as ants. There is the Queen ant, worker ants, and soldier ants. Same organism slightly different, all come from the same egg, and all work together to achieve a common goal. In this case, destroy all humans. So to be at least somewhat believable and possible in anyway they all need to evolve into "each other". So I guess I just counter argued myself, because this actually does model real evolution. But I guess if we go by the ant example we'd have to change "Evolving" into "Changing" into the different aliens.
So our "assumption" is in fact the only solution that we are forced to conclude to.
Thursday, 14 February 2013 22:04
ViruS wrote:
Look at the tyrant
Basi: I was never told this.
*spider gains an L shaped back, sticking the head upwards*
*next class has the backbone streched forward
*the class after that class after that has its back stretched up again
Having the two evolution classes in between with a different posture is kinda pointless, or you could say the basi having its head up is pointless. We might as well get the head of the mara and the goon up.
Tyrant seems to be having a lot of weak spots then, particularly the back of its head where its brain should be a one-shot easy weakpoint, unless it's tougher than steel.
Adding simply armour and making the class bigger doesn't make it interesting for me. It's like adding chunks of metal to a tank to make it look cooler.
What I like about the some trem models-
basi - unique jaw
mara - unique 'zapping' storage in its bodies, showing off (despite looking like a weakpoint)
In a way that's like calling dogs horses, or the other away around.
The closest I can ever relate to that is probably dingoes, an australian dog-wolf hybrid.
Basi: I was never told this.
*spider gains an L shaped back, sticking the head upwards*
*next class has the backbone streched forward
*the class after that class after that has its back stretched up again
Having the two evolution classes in between with a different posture is kinda pointless, or you could say the basi having its head up is pointless. We might as well get the head of the mara and the goon up.
Tyrant seems to be having a lot of weak spots then, particularly the back of its head where its brain should be a one-shot easy weakpoint, unless it's tougher than steel.
Adding simply armour and making the class bigger doesn't make it interesting for me. It's like adding chunks of metal to a tank to make it look cooler.
What I like about the some trem models-
basi - unique jaw
mara - unique 'zapping' storage in its bodies, showing off (despite looking like a weakpoint)
In a way that's like calling dogs horses, or the other away around.
The closest I can ever relate to that is probably dingoes, an australian dog-wolf hybrid.
Virus:
The Tyrant has 2 arms and 4 legs. 2 + 4 = 6. So, to put it in evolutionary standards, 2 of the legs evolved into slashing arms.
Basi, Either was I until a few months ago, and it makes sense that it actually looks like a mini rant, but who cares because it's being changed entirely.
And what about adding armor? It's not just adding armor for the Adv class, the base class is getting it to, and eh Adv. class still needs to look something like it's base class. An Adv. Mara is still a Mara, just a bit bigger, tougher and glows with blue electricity since it can zap things.
Posture: Im very sure us humans can stand up straight leaving most monkeys still hunched over, walking on their knuckles.
kharnov: I agree looking cool is defiantly of the up most importance. But the difficulty with that is everything needs to be of the same art style, and a certain level of being believable. Just like movies. You can't tell me Avatar would be as good if it wasn't as believable? James Cameron himself said that.
But what you're suggesting about real life evolution doesn't apply in this particular instance. The only logical solution to any evolution is evolving something that is needed. Flowers attract bees. In this case Maras become bigger more powerful Goons and become bigger more powerful tyrants. One alien evolving into the next as needed.
As for aliens being different organisms entirely doesn't make sense in the least. They all come from the same egg and the same base alien. And is not a simple symbiotic relationship like most cross species relationships. Think of it as ants. There is the Queen ant, worker ants, and soldier ants. Same organism slightly different, all come from the same egg, and all work together to achieve a common goal. In this case, destroy all humans. So to be at least somewhat believable and possible in anyway they all need to evolve into "each other". So I guess I just counter argued myself, because this actually does model real evolution. But I guess if we go by the ant example we'd have to change "Evolving" into "Changing" into the different aliens.
So our "assumption" is in fact the only solution that we are forced to conclude to.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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kharnov
Thursday, 14 February 2013 23:21
None of the organisms are related to each other, and were originally from different worlds. The ant example you gave me was all the same species. So what if they all spawn out of the same egg? Why would we want to make different eggs for each alien type when you can simplify it? Some things are abstracted so that the game works. This is why a dretch can somehow expand into a tyrant in an instant.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
Same species was the whole point. Because an Eagle doesn't come out of a Chicken egg. The evolution idea works better. Everything is already there, it's already called "evolve", they all come out of the same egg, and there's an evolution line between all of the aliens as it is. Ganger = worker ant, Tyrant = soldier ant.
Why the entirety of the game just to get your idea to work, when the evolution line makes more sense and is already in place? Why change the entirety of the game just to defend the odd looking Mara?
And who says they were from different worlds? You did? Why not say they're the same species, and save trying to fix the incredible amount of holes in it's very possibility.
As a result, you get
1: A matching art scheme, like they already are they look of the same species like they share a common base. (Except for the new Mara atm), it won'y look like a mash of peoples different ideas.
2: A better story muuuuch more believable story, why would all these random species from all over the universe join together to oppose the humans? (I haven't read the lore, but I can't imagine 20% of the people will ever). Even if they did they'd have to be pretty damn intelligent to make their DNA compatible with each other, so they can reproduce and the OM can control them. But then why don't they just make a bio weapon that targets humans.
3: Get to use the assets that are already in place in the game. Common egg, all the mathing models, mechanics, evo points, ect. No need to change a thing to get the abstract to work.
Friday, 15 February 2013 02:56
kharnov wrote:
None of the organisms are related to each other, and were originally from different worlds. The ant example you gave me was all the same species. So what if they all spawn out of the same egg? Why would we want to make different eggs for each alien type when you can simplify it? Some things are abstracted so that the game works. This is why a dretch can somehow expand into a tyrant in an instant.
Same species was the whole point. Because an Eagle doesn't come out of a Chicken egg. The evolution idea works better. Everything is already there, it's already called "evolve", they all come out of the same egg, and there's an evolution line between all of the aliens as it is. Ganger = worker ant, Tyrant = soldier ant.
Why the entirety of the game just to get your idea to work, when the evolution line makes more sense and is already in place? Why change the entirety of the game just to defend the odd looking Mara?
And who says they were from different worlds? You did? Why not say they're the same species, and save trying to fix the incredible amount of holes in it's very possibility.
As a result, you get
1: A matching art scheme, like they already are they look of the same species like they share a common base. (Except for the new Mara atm), it won'y look like a mash of peoples different ideas.
2: A better story muuuuch more believable story, why would all these random species from all over the universe join together to oppose the humans? (I haven't read the lore, but I can't imagine 20% of the people will ever). Even if they did they'd have to be pretty damn intelligent to make their DNA compatible with each other, so they can reproduce and the OM can control them. But then why don't they just make a bio weapon that targets humans.
3: Get to use the assets that are already in place in the game. Common egg, all the mathing models, mechanics, evo points, ect. No need to change a thing to get the abstract to work.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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ViruS
Friday, 15 February 2013 10:01
Reminds me of the stickman mutating into a tank.
@ Tyrants limbs: I see at least 8.
Then you did an even worse job, in my opinion. It looks more evolutionary than 'cool' (in my honest opinion). The only classes I'm fine with now is rant and dretch, besides dretch being so spider-like and rant being crab-like.
@ Tyrants limbs: I see at least 8.
kharnov wrote:
In summary, let me make something clear. Our priorities are this: looking cool goes first, forming a logical explanation for everything else goes second.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
Tuesday, 19 February 2013 05:05
So I think the reasonable course of action would be to perhaps come up with some new concept Mara art. If people like it, then we can switch. If not I guess we'll use this one.
Generally the best judges, are the people who play it, more minds are better then few.
Generally the best judges, are the people who play it, more minds are better then few.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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Ishq
Tuesday, 19 February 2013 07:41
THe current marauder isn't textured yet. Once you see colors, it will fit better. Also, the mesh itself isn't final. We will probably make adjustments based on feedback while still allowing the artist to maintain fidelity to his vision of the mara.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
We'll Ive seen both concept texture drawings....
Wednesday, 20 February 2013 02:30
Ishq wrote:
THe current marauder isn't textured yet. Once you see colors, it will fit better. Also, the mesh itself isn't final. We will probably make adjustments based on feedback while still allowing the artist to maintain fidelity to his vision of the mara.
We'll Ive seen both concept texture drawings....
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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KenuR
Wednesday, 20 February 2013 10:15
I think the mara we saw in the concept picture is extremely badass. The only one I don't really like is basi, but it's hard to pinpoint what exactly is wrong with it. Maybe the fat abdomen, or the slightly awkward posture. Basi should look and feel like an elusive, agile ninja imo.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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Khaoz
How much more f*cking ninja can ya get!
YEAH!
didn'tseehimuntillitwastoolate / 10
Wednesday, 20 February 2013 10:48
KenuR wrote:
I think the mara we saw in the concept picture is extremely badass. The only one I don't really like is basi, but it's hard to pinpoint what exactly is wrong with it. Maybe the fat abdomen, or the slightly awkward posture. Basi should look and feel like an elusive, agile ninja imo.
How much more f*cking ninja can ya get!
YEAH!
didn'tseehimuntillitwastoolate / 10
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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kharnov
Wednesday, 20 February 2013 16:51
Khaos is why we can have nice things.
Re: Aliens of Unvanquished
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WhiteTech
Wednesday, 20 February 2013 19:44
Yeah, the basi is just too badass for anyone to handle :l Efffffing love it!